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Connecticut Shooting |
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diviesti 
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Capitaaaaah Joined: Oct/27/2009 Location: 45 Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Connecticut ShootingPosted: Dec/17/2012 at 7:45am |
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Being from Wyoming I see the reasoning in owning guns, from hunting, sport shooting, even protection. There does need to be gun law reform though, I've owned many guns in my life, and Assault riffles have nor reasonable purpose for civilians IMO. They also need to adjust how the media is allowed to cover tragedies like this, I'm sure this has given many weirdos ideas of glory just from the non stop coverage of the killer. I know his name, but only one or two of the names of the victims.
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richardvoyageur
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Joined: Mar/01/2010 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1054 |
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Posted: Dec/17/2012 at 8:21am |
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I agree with you on the legit uses of guns, although protection is a bit weaker of an argument in my mind. I also completely agree on assault weapons but I would add big clips to that as well. Semi-auto rifles with 30 round clips doesn't seem reasonable.
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Ryanpmajor
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Joined: Jan/28/2012 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 55 |
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Posted: Dec/17/2012 at 10:04am |
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I cant even read this type of stuff.. hurts too much. my prayers are for them.
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bweston
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My wife, myself, and Steveo. Joined: Oct/02/2011 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 102 |
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Posted: Dec/17/2012 at 10:14am |
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I took this off of facebook. Not sure if Morgan Freeman actually said it but I believe that the message really hits home. Everyone has their own opinion on gun control and many people are on opposite ends of the spectrum about it. I believe this situation far exceeds gun control and more of an issue of what our society has become.
TURN OFF THE NEWS....... Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday : "You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. ...It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody. CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next. You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."See More |
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rosati777
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Calvin and Hobbes Extreme Sports Joined: Mar/03/2010 Location: 24 Online Status: Offline Posts: 738 |
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Posted: Dec/17/2012 at 12:11pm |
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Wow that ^^^ actually makes a lot of sense.
I still think that that woman having all those guns was a little crazy. People who are preparing for the Zombiepocalypse have to be a little crazy.
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AJD13
Ski Bum
Cannon. on the ground nothing new! Joined: Sep/08/2010 Location: 21 Online Status: Offline Posts: 519 |
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Posted: Dec/17/2012 at 12:38pm |
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Most people arent preparing for a zombie apocalypse... Its a hobby for a lot of people including myself... that woman should have had those guns in a safe only she knew the combination too. I happen to have over 8 guns in my house right now... does that make me crazy??? no it doesnt i like them, they all have a purpose of use for me and i shoot them all on a regular basis. That was a very moronic statement my friend... just because someone has a lot of guns does not make them crazy.
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Lux
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Two-handed tail block Joined: Mar/08/2011 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 888 |
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Posted: Dec/17/2012 at 4:30pm |
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As a fellow Canadian with comparably poor comprehension of American gun mentality, I would argue against your reasoning that replacing that gun with a hunting knife or fire axe would not have prevented the massacre. Sociopathic behaviour and mental health issues were what drove him to kill, not bullets. You could destroy every firearm in USA and would still have mass murders. If somebody has planned to commit murder, they are probably going to commit that murder, regardless of the weapon. In theory, extreme gun registry *may* help, but in reality, it would work against the interests of the remaining 99% of American population firearm hobbyists with sound mental health. Nobody in public would vote for that. Nobody in the Senate would vote for that. It won't work. Serious efforts on the part of Americans need to be put into improving social conditions within at-risk demographics if anyone is expecting to prevent another school shooting.
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AJD13
Ski Bum
Cannon. on the ground nothing new! Joined: Sep/08/2010 Location: 21 Online Status: Offline Posts: 519 |
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Posted: Dec/17/2012 at 7:09pm |
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Well said Lux. Timothy McVeigh did not use a gun. there will always be those crazy people out there... the only thing we can do is try to prevent it. which would be, arming the teachers or placing law enforcement in the schools... but that still doesnt help situations like the movie theater massacre. (which was a no carry zone.) if they made concealed carry legal everywhere maybe those people carrying would intervene... The people with concealed carry permits are extensively trained and are not lose cannons. they are psychologically screened and taught everything there is to know about the topic. But again its just an idea and a safety perk.
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bweston
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My wife, myself, and Steveo. Joined: Oct/02/2011 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 102 |
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Posted: Dec/18/2012 at 1:59am |
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I have to agree that more strict gun laws will not prevent these atrocities from happening. People with this level of mental issues will find a means. A person could very easily get in their car and run over 20 children at a cross walk on their way to school. Drugs are illegal and people still use them, alcohol was banned during the prohibition and people still consumed alcohol. Guns can and will be smuggled into the US and then will only be in the hands of the criminals with bad intentions. I'm not saying we should't review our current gun ownership laws and try to make adjustments but banning guns altogether is not a solution. We need to look at our society as a whole and start fixing problems there first.
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rosati777
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Calvin and Hobbes Extreme Sports Joined: Mar/03/2010 Location: 24 Online Status: Offline Posts: 738 |
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Posted: Dec/18/2012 at 7:28am |
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She said she was preparing for when the leaders in office caused the economy to crash or something stupid like that...
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richardvoyageur
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Joined: Mar/01/2010 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1054 |
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Posted: Dec/18/2012 at 4:49pm |
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Do you not believe that if he had to use less lethal, hand-to-hand weapons that more kids would still be alive right now? That guy in China wounded 23 kids and 1 adult and killed none with a knife. This guy had a terribly high kill rate. I'm not disputing the fact that there will be people who will kill people no matter what, that is a given. What is also a given is if that lady would have either not owned the guns or kept them in a safe, she would not have been killed by her OWN guns. Arm the teachers? Think of the logistics of what you're proposing. Gun safes in every classroom, massive training, union issues, cost of buying a gun for every teacher in every school in the US, etc. What about the element of surprise? You're never going to have an announcement that, "I'm coming to kill a bunch of kids." How can some people think the answer to this is MORE guns? You're already at 270 MILLION and it's quite obviously not working for you. It's perverse how gun sales go up immediately after these events. Out of G12 countries, the US has almost 6 times more gun-related homicides than the 2nd and almost triple the unintentional gun deaths than the 2nd place country. How many kids are accidentally killed by these guns purchased to "safeguard families"? I'm not saying there should be a total ban on guns; perhaps banning semi-auto rifles and large clips could help. I don't have the answers, but I think it's plain to see that this isn't getting better, it's getting worse.
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AJD13
Ski Bum
Cannon. on the ground nothing new! Joined: Sep/08/2010 Location: 21 Online Status: Offline Posts: 519 |
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Posted: Dec/18/2012 at 10:14pm |
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Thats not the point i was trying to make. you were saying that someone who has a lot of guns is crazy. i was pointing out that rashness in your statement and some people who have nothing but good intentions own guns. Was i speaking on behalf of this lady no... i was speaking on behalf of the hobbyists and collectors like myself.
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elmers_cow
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Joined: Mar/15/2009 Location: 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1443 |
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 2:46am |
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Of course... there is always someone or something to blame. Gun control... really?
On the same day, there was another guy in china who went into a school stabbing kids. To say gun control will help prevent cases like this is completely absurd! If a person who is sick enough and willing enough to take away innocent lives, no laws will ever be able to stop them. It is really sickening, but there is nothing concrete that can prevent these horrific incidents. Culture and society is all to blame-- blame for the lack of implementing certain morals can only be put on ourselves. Why only ourselves? Complete control over others is impossible, but what you do for yourself is completely in your own hand and how you influence others is also in your own hand. Heres an article regarding the Chinese stabbing: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html |
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let it snow
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Oinker
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Joined: Oct/22/2009 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 481 |
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 6:34am |
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This issue goes far beyond gun control. Laws are not going to resolve these types of crimes and horrible acts. These issues run much deeper in our culture & will not simply be resolved by inacting more laws.
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bdanross
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Joined: Nov/11/2010 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 367 |
Quote Reply
Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 7:47am |
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more than 500 kids die from accidental gun shots a year in the US. I dont hear anyone crying about that. im not sure if that requires gun control and those parents suck but seriously...500 a year.
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richardvoyageur
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Joined: Mar/01/2010 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1054 |
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 10:21am |
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Do you know how many died in the knife attacks? Zero. The shooter on the other hand killed almost every single person he attacked. No one is disputing the fact that there are crazy people out there, but if you give one crazy a full auto submachine gun(thankfully outlawed) and the other one a knife, who will claim more lives? I don't think it's that hard to figure out. But no, no gun problem here. If anyone is interested, do some research into what Australia did with their gun control after a huge massacre, in 1996 I believe. Their gun related deaths (including suicides and accidentals) are way down since then. This is not rocket science. Here is an example of their different weapon categories, which seem completely reasonable to me.
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rosati777
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Calvin and Hobbes Extreme Sports Joined: Mar/03/2010 Location: 24 Online Status: Offline Posts: 738 |
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 10:48am |
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That is totally fine. AS LONG AS you lock them up and only you know the combination. Which this idiot woman obviously did not do. I think if anything changes, it's how strict we are about making sure people secure their guns so that only they or someone with a license can access them. Not children or crazy family members.
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AJD13
Ski Bum
Cannon. on the ground nothing new! Joined: Sep/08/2010 Location: 21 Online Status: Offline Posts: 519 |
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 11:02am |
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yeah, thats all well and good. but there is no way we could regulate that... the only thing we can do is keep people informed. You can't regulate the inside of someones house that would fall under illegal search and seizure. What can be done is require people to buy locking gun cases with their new weapon, or show proof that they have a safe for their weapons.
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lightning80
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Joined: Mar/10/2010 Location: NorCal Online Status: Online Posts: 3128 |
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 11:05am |
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^ I totally agree with richardvoyageur. Yes, the problem is with society and the crazy people. I agree that crazy people are going to find ways to hurt and kill. But, if these people don't have access to guns, the damage they can inflict is much more limited (ie. knife vs. guns).
Oh, and I'm not Canadien. I grew up in Texas where guns are everywhere. The state where concealed weapons is the law (you can carry, just don't let people see it). I've shot cans with hand guns and rifles, and shot clay with shotguns. Sure, it's fun to shoot. But it's not worth the potential lives that it could end.
The right to bear arms was founded in a time where there was not any established military or police system and everyone needed to be armed to fight against the British. The times have changed and there isn't any country invading us and we already have massive miliatary and police oranizations in all levels of government (federal, state, county, city, and even neighborhoods). There's no longer a need for everyone to be armed. Who are you going to shoot with your gun? Someone else with a gun...
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rosati777
Local
Calvin and Hobbes Extreme Sports Joined: Mar/03/2010 Location: 24 Online Status: Offline Posts: 738 |
Quote Reply
Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 11:08am |
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Yeah, make a requirement to secure your guns in a safe and Show proof that you own a locking safe. I don't know how else you could prove it without letting them inside your house. Is there anything else like this?
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richardvoyageur
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 11:21am |
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This is the type of discussion I think is pertinent. No one wants to steal all of your guns. But there ARE things that can be done. Make everyone show proof of a safe or locker. Gun safety classes. Gun registry. Ban on certain types of weapons or ammo.
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lightning80
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Joined: Mar/10/2010 Location: NorCal Online Status: Online Posts: 3128 |
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 11:36am |
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Here's an idea for an invention: a tracking device for all guns that gets deactivated whenever it's in a safe. When it gets taken out, an alert is sent to some central monitoring location and the location of the gun gets tracked (like lo jack). A call is made to the registered gun owner (like how the alarm company calls you when your home alarm goes off) to see why the gun taken out of the safe. If the owner doesn't know how it got out, police is sent to the location of the gun. If the owner says he's taking to a shooting range, they can track to see whether the owner is on the right path. Yes, the process is bothersome for the gun owner, but is well worth it, just ask any of the innocent people that have been killed by guns. |
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AJD13
Ski Bum
Cannon. on the ground nothing new! Joined: Sep/08/2010 Location: 21 Online Status: Offline Posts: 519 |
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 11:43am |
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no weapons ban. that wont solve anything just make people angry and ready to go to their guns against the government. and the tracking is a little to upclose and personal for me. i dont want anyone to know where i am unless i tell them. that system has many potential bugs too. it could be hacked and then peoples information would be compromised. if the government started to go all totalitarian like that lady was preparing for they could send out the military to round up all the guns. Another thing im not sure that you understand is guns require a lot of upkeep and need to be cleaned frequently even if they are in storage. this system would be so overwhelmed by guns being removed from safes itd fry up. there are 270 million legal guns in America.... so granted there are over 10 million guns out at one period of time... do you know how big that server system would have to be? the costs would be astronomical to put that in place.
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Im the Boss of all bosses. You can't win.
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Oinker
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 11:55am |
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Granted there are ‘some’ gun related issues that need to be addressed but that is not the central part of this problem. What happens when people with these same mental problems start going on killing sprees with other weapons? Such as knives, axes, machetes, flame throwers, burning down building, blowing up buildings, etc. Then what? Then what do we legislate out of the hands of everyone? The bigger issues that need to be looked at are mental health problems & social issues. How those are addressed I don’t know, but to focus on one single point of this horrible crime is not the answer. |
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diviesti
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Capitaaaaah Joined: Oct/27/2009 Location: 45 Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 12:00pm |
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Doesn't look like its going to a no weapons ban, assault military style rifles will be banned, high capacity clips, and how easy it is to get guns from private parties. I can't argue with any of those either.
Pairing that with better laws on who can own guns I think will go a long way.
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lightning80
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 12:13pm |
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And, saving lives is not worth that kind of price? Tax the guns and ammo sales to pay for it. If ADT can monitor millions of home, I'm sure the federal government can monitor millions of guns.
We give up certain freedoms, like driving as fast as we want in our cars that are made to go way past the speed limit, for the better good of everyone. I think giving up on some freedom of big brother knowning where your guns are, is for the better good of everyone. If you're not taking your gun to the neighborhood park/school/hospital/movie theater/super market/mall/etc. then you've got nothing to hide. By the way, your cell phone provider already knows where you are all the time...
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diviesti
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Capitaaaaah Joined: Oct/27/2009 Location: 45 Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 12:19pm |
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Well that happened in China the same day as the Connecticut shooting, a guy stabbed 22 children and they all survived. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/world/asia/man-stabs-22-children-in-china.html?_r=0 Its not a one thing fix all cure, but if anything happens from this tragedy hopefully we make our country a safer and better country because of it. |
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AJD13
Ski Bum
Cannon. on the ground nothing new! Joined: Sep/08/2010 Location: 21 Online Status: Offline Posts: 519 |
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 12:30pm |
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I disagree i think that is to extreme. I think if there is proof of a safe in the house, specified training, psychological and background checks passed and Legal permits that is enough. There is no need for some trillion dollar system that would run us bankrupt. Its a insane concept and it lets the government into our lives to much. That is not what our country is built on. And there are people who take their guns to the neighborhood park, hospital, movies, supermarkets, and malls. Its called concealed carry and it is 100% legal. You take a class you are trained on how to properly use the weapon, you look at situations on when and when not to draw/shoot, and you look at weapon safety. Concealed carriers have helped reduce murder rates by 8% in some parts of the country. Your idea sounds like it would work but it intrudes on to many freedoms, and it is not practical, there are other ways to prevent crime that is much cheaper. Not to mention that most crimes are committed with illegal guns, most of which have been smuggled, stolen, or recreated and modified. these people aren't going to have trackers on their weapons... So why put unnecessary laws upon all the legal gun owners like myself who do everything by the book?
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Im the Boss of all bosses. You can't win.
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Oinker
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 12:41pm |
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I’m not saying that some gun laws don’t need to be changed & certain weapons don’t belong in the hands of the general public. Those changes will definitely help prevent some future deaths. But people who are that far gone mentally are going to find another way to carry out their plan to hurt or kill people. That was my main point. All in all every crime will never be stopped but there seems be such an alarming amount of these mass rampage type killing sprees happening now. It’s just sad and they need to be addressed on many different levels. |
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richardvoyageur
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 12:43pm |
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They do ban (or regulate) certain chemicals necessary to make large scale bombs like the Oklahoma bombing. Regulating certain aspects of gun ownership would be similar in my opinion.
I think the logistical issues are much easier to deal with than the classic, "put guns in the hands of teachers" argument, which is nearly impossible to imagine doing. Japan has massive gun control policies in place. Want to guess how many gun related deaths they had in 2008? 11. The US? 12,000. Their population in 2008 was 127 million, let's say the US had triple that. So you get total of 30 compared to 12,000. Obviously cultures differ and there are other things at play here, but the numbers are staggering. Here is another tidbit I found:
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Angry Midget Yo
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Posted: Dec/19/2012 at 12:48pm |
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I remember another incident in China awhile ago about a guy doing the same thing.
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rosati777
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Calvin and Hobbes Extreme Sports Joined: Mar/03/2010 Location: 24 Online Status: Offline Posts: 738 |
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Posted: Dec/20/2012 at 2:41pm |
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If he really wanted to kill people he could have made a car bomb with fertilizer and drove it into the school but that's besides the point. He should not have been able to gain access to the weapons in the first place. They should have been locked up.
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bweston
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My wife, myself, and Steveo. Joined: Oct/02/2011 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 102 |
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Posted: Dec/21/2012 at 12:31am |
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Forget the bomb, all he had to do was get in his car and wait for the kids at a cross walk going to school or on the play ground. How destructive can a car going 30 mph be to a group of people standing still. Say what you want about gun control but the issue is our society. These mentally unsafe morons will find a means to their end regardless of what we ban or regulate.
I don't think the idea of putting trackers on our guns and giving the government that much control is a good idea. I see where you were going and I like the thought process but I think that is too much power to give to our idiot governmetn. |
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jacquet
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Posted: Dec/21/2012 at 12:36am |
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I can't answer what the solution is to gun control, and I do not think any one can. However I do not think guns are the major issue at play. What I hope to see in my lifetime is a community where no one is left behind. May sound naive or too farfetched, but I would like to live in a community where people can feel more involved, and more comfortable speaking and associating with one another.
Education reform that institutes the fundamentals of a more liberal and democratic education for people of all classes. Healthcare reform where all members of the community can be treated with the appropriate level of care. Communities that can have access to good quality food at a fair price. This all sounds cliché and it will not not solve anything, but I think it can help us head in the "positive" direction and make an impact on our culture. I think part of the problem lies in inequality, and no one likes being on the wrong end of it; while at the same time people on the better side of equality don't want to fall at the expense of others. And no I am not some kind of communist that wants to end capitalism. It'd just be nice to see more people willing to play a part in helping people in this country who are on the wrong side of equality, whether it be poverty, mental illness, homelessness, etc. because if they don't how do they expect society to improve? How this relates to violence and gun control is that maybe it would reduce the amount of individuals who feel they are treated unfairly by society for whatever reason. Maybe it will reduce the amount of adolescents who feel that joining a gang is their only option. But don't take any of this as a proposal for a solution. They are just goals I would like to work for and possibly see in the community I live in. |
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rosati777
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Calvin and Hobbes Extreme Sports Joined: Mar/03/2010 Location: 24 Online Status: Offline Posts: 738 |
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Posted: Dec/21/2012 at 8:58pm |
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I don't know man I think he was just messed up in the head. I was thinking that too though, that he might have had grudges and that maybe he got made fun of, but why did he shoot innocent little first graders?
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AJD13
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Cannon. on the ground nothing new! Joined: Sep/08/2010 Location: 21 Online Status: Offline Posts: 519 |
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Posted: Dec/21/2012 at 9:12pm |
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apparently his mother abused him. If that is the case its messed up but thats no reason to go off and kill innocent people who had nothing to do with the situation. Apparently there were a few copy cats today. luckily everything was debunked and nothing happened.
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bweston
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My wife, myself, and Steveo. Joined: Oct/02/2011 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 102 |
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Posted: Dec/22/2012 at 2:31am |
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jacquet, I agree with you to an extent. The one thing I would add to your comment is the willingness of the people to want to better themselves. Many people in our society have accepted the way of life on govt. assistance. They don't want to better themselves. I feel our society has become lazy and just accept their current situation. I also see an issue with this country being more divided today than in the past. Whether it be by religion, class, race, etc. we really are divided. When all these circumstances are taken into consideration I feel it has a greater affect on the mental states of our citizens. This is no excuse to go on a shooting rampage, especially at an elementary school.
I also disagree with the idea of medicating our children for every little issue. Our kids are depressed, hyper, have an eating disorder, etc. then we medicate them. How is this affecting the mental states of our kids. If they are on medication from time they are 5 or 6, it is no wonder they snap once they get in their teens. |
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Geology Rocks
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Joined: Oct/01/2008 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2309 |
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Posted: Dec/22/2012 at 1:08pm |
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Simply by reading the terms used in your post I know your understanding of firearms. Stop making judgements of something you know nothing about, or restating incorrect facts you heard on the news. Thanks
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Lux
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Two-handed tail block Joined: Mar/08/2011 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 888 |
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Posted: Dec/22/2012 at 3:04pm |
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From what I gather, his intended target was the teacher, therefore he was so appropriately armed. But let's say somebody with a similar degree of mental sickness entered a police station with the intention of killing officers. He/she would have probably planned for it and equipped himself/herself appropriately: possibly hand grenades and pipe bombs in this case. Again, the absence of guns has not made a difference in preventing the assault from happening. But in all fairness to your reasoning, yes, being without a gun means the assailant would need to be more upfront/close-quarters in the attack.
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ippollite
Expert Members 
Joined: Oct/26/2009 Location: 60 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2996 |
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Posted: Dec/22/2012 at 5:15pm |
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As a brit i can tell you two things with cast iron certainty.
1. If i want a gun i can get one. 2. I wouldnt have the slightest clue where to start even thinking about getting one though since no one i know would have the slightest clue where to start even thinking about getting one. Im not a "bad man". I dont even know any "bad men". It would have to be through some kind of shenanigans involving friends of friends of dodgy as hell friends and strange paranoia and suspicions that you arent setting them up. I wouldnt want to have any recourse in dealing with to be honest. So yes, i can definitely get one if i want and can figure out how to get it, and also pay an absolute fortune to get it since i didnt grow up in a shitty neighborhood and will be taken for a mug if anyone would even let me buy it. But its not easy, and its not something most people would even want to do. Which is of course why very few people in britain have a handgun and why very few people would even think about picking one up. Its all well and good throwing out the claim that anyone can get one, but the honest truth is that its incredibly hard, complicated, and fraught with danger to get one in the UK... unless of course you come from the estates and already know all these dodgy people.
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m00m
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bdanross
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Joined: Nov/11/2010 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 367 |
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Posted: Dec/22/2012 at 7:09pm |
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NRA released their official statement yesterday. from their website http://home.nra.org/# its interesting. i cut out a lot left some of the points i found interesting. read it on their site
The only way to answer that question is to face up to the truth. Politicians pass laws for Gun-Free School Zones. They issue press releases braggingabout them. They post signs advertising them. And in so doing, they tell every insane killer in America that schools are theirsafest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk. How have our nation's priorities gotten so far out of order? Think about it. We care about our money, so we protect our banks with armed guards. American airports, office buildings, power plants, courthouses — even sports stadiums — are all protected by armed security. We care about the President, so we protect him with armed Secret Service agents. Members of Congress work in offices surrounded by armed Capitol Police officers. Yet when it comes to the most beloved, innocent and vulnerable members of the American family — our children — we as a society leave them utterly defenseless, and the monsters and predators of this world know it and exploit it. That must change now! The truth is that our society is populated by an unknown number of genuine monsters — people so deranged, so evil, so possessed by voices and driven by demons that no sane person can possibly ever comprehend them. They walk among us every day. How many more copycats are waiting in the wings for their moment of fame — from a national media machine that rewards them with the wall-to-wall attention and sense of identity that they crave — while provoking others to try to make their mark? Through vicious, violent video games with names like Bulletstorm, Grand Theft Auto, Mortal Kombat and Splatterhouse. And here's one: it's called Kindergarten Killers. It's been online for 10 years. Then there's the blood-soaked slasher films like "American Psycho" and "Natural Born Killers" that are aired like propaganda loops on "Splatterdays" and every day, and a thousand music videos that portray life as a joke and murder as a way of life. And then they have the nerve to call it "entertainment." as parents, we do everything we can to keep our children safe. It is now time for us to assume responsibility for their safety at school. The only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be personally involved and invested in a plan of absolute protection. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Would you rather have your 911 call bring a good guy with a gun from a mile away ... or a minute away? |
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richardvoyageur
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Joined: Mar/01/2010 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1054 |
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Posted: Dec/23/2012 at 10:01am |
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The press in NY were all laughing at the NRA president and calling him a nut. I have to agree when his recommended course of action is to arm the teachers or put cops in every school. The police departments of most cities are on the decline right now, with very tough budget crises.
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richardvoyageur
Instructor
Joined: Mar/01/2010 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1054 |
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Posted: Dec/23/2012 at 10:07am |
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So please educate me then instead of being arrogant and dismissive. I don't know alot about guns as there aren't many people with guns up here in Canada (in my circles at least). The odd hunting rifle or shotgun, that kind of thing. So yes, you are correct. We also have shootings, definitely, but our numbers are magnitudes lower than the US equivalent. It's a lot harder for a nut to gain access to multiple guns up here, I can tell you that.
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bdanross
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Joined: Nov/11/2010 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 367 |
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Posted: Dec/23/2012 at 10:19am |
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i also heard that during the columbine shooting the police officer stationed at the school gone in a prolonged shootout with eric harris. so he was there and it still happened. but i agree the closer the defense is the less likely there will be damage. but again in aurora the main police station for aurora was less than a half mile away
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richardvoyageur
Instructor
Joined: Mar/01/2010 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1054 |
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Posted: Dec/23/2012 at 10:29am |
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I would say that it would be exceedingly hard to keep a high degree of readiness for years and years, just waiting for someone to do something. Even in the case of an attack, the gunman would have the element of surprise and might very well win anyway. Look at the number of cops that are shot in the line of duty, with a vest and gun on at all times.
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AJD13
Ski Bum
Cannon. on the ground nothing new! Joined: Sep/08/2010 Location: 21 Online Status: Offline Posts: 519 |
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Posted: Dec/23/2012 at 9:58pm |
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if this is the case the cop did his job... he distracted the shooter away from the children and towards himself... He effectively accomplished his goals while the teachers and children had time to get to safety. The NRA is right we need to place police officers in schools and arm teachers bottom line there should be a gun in every wing of a school incase stuff like this breaks out.
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Im the Boss of all bosses. You can't win.
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bdanross
Local
Joined: Nov/11/2010 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 367 |
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Posted: Dec/24/2012 at 7:15am |
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i agree that the distraction is good. however the point the NRA makes of schools being the safest place to shoot people i think is erroneous. if only there was someone at fort hood with a gun that could prevent that shooting. if only there were guns on military bases in Afghanistan that could prevent green on blue attacks. most people who do these attacks commit suicide anyways im not sure that making it out alive is a concern.
another thing a man shot his 7 year old a few days ago. a 3 year old shot himself about a week ago http://www.metro.us/philadelphia/local/article/1157744--pa-man-accidentally-shoots-and-kills-7-year-old-son-in-gun-store-parking-lot http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/10/13/3-year-old-shoots-self-in-face-with-dads-gun/ also this guy shoots a man in a pizza place because the other guy was taking to long to order http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57560240-504083/michael-jock-florida-man-invokes-stand-your-ground-law-after-shooting-man-at-pizza-restaurant-police-say/ again i like guns and think they are fun. clearly there are tons of gun owners out there that are extremely responsible but there are a lot out there that are not. in your opinion should these parents or this man own guns anymore? |
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bdanross
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Joined: Nov/11/2010 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 367 |
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Posted: Dec/24/2012 at 8:33am |
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 convincing point for pro gun rights. photo from young american's for liberty |
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AJD13
Ski Bum
Cannon. on the ground nothing new! Joined: Sep/08/2010 Location: 21 Online Status: Offline Posts: 519 |
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Posted: Dec/24/2012 at 10:01am |
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I think the point the guy is trying to make is that places are like these are easy targets. I find it very ironic how the guns are all locked up on military bases, seems a little stupid of our military to restrict people who are trained to the highest level. They should have that freedom. And regarding to the 3 year olds shooting himself people need to know how to properly store their weapons. There should be extensive training on weapons use and safety, also people should be psychologically screened through a series of questions that can be asked and evaluated by the gun dealers. simple as that most guns used for crime are stolen. if people are more aware of their weapons, and their safety when they purchase them they might not get stolen and used for crime.
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Im the Boss of all bosses. You can't win.
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richardvoyageur
Instructor
Joined: Mar/01/2010 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1054 |
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Posted: Dec/24/2012 at 10:47am |
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So you are advocating for gun control changes then? Perfect! I think the NRA president "shot himself in the foot" with his delirious comments. The media is tearing him up. Anyone care to dig up how many people have died from guns in the US since the massacre? It's always a sobering reminder.
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